5 Year Old in Trouble!

M.,
Sorry about all the problems you are having. As a mother of four , I know how difficult it can be dealing with behaviors and problems. It seems that you have a lot of good ideas coming your way, so sometimes you just have to keep looking into them until something clicks. You might even consider asking about some other possibilities- autism has a very broad spectrum and some of her behavioirs sound like they are in that range and another idea is Sensory Integration or Sensory Affective disorders. ADHD and all of these others as well as bipolar all can go hand in hand. It is quite overwhelming to think of the number of things that could be wrong but stay strong and know that you are the best advocate your child will ever have. I have said a prayer for you both.

M. sometimes kids don't get along with their teacher or some of the kids in their class but your daughter to be beyond that. I think it's a great idea to get advice from her pediatrician especially if it turns out to medical in nature.The Doctor can run tests to see if there is medication to help her.
You mentioned that her father has BP Disorder and that can be passed down. Do you have access to his records as a child? Are you on good terms with his family because they could probably answer alot of your questions. Does her Doctor know about your husband's condition?
Lastly,did your husband exhibit some of these behaviors before you separated? Maybe some of it is mimicing him. Or good old fashion anger at the situation that she doesn't really know how to express.
Maybe you can get a referral for a child Psychologist or counselor so you have someone to talk to since family is not an option for you. We all need some we can confide in especially when kids hit the scene! Hang in there and ask lots of questions when you see the Doctor!

M. - It sounds like you have your hands full. I work as a school counselor for 6th-8th graders, but previously worked in counseling for children and adolescents. I would recommend speaking to the teacher about interventions the school recommends to try besides a behavior calendar. It seems to be focused on what she's NOT doing instead of encouraging what behaviors they WANT her to demonstrate. I also highly recommend PLAY therapy as a way for her to get out whatever anger or other issues she may be going through but can't find the right words to talk about. A trained play therapist will be able to see if there are significant mental health issues besides just dealing with an adjustment to divorce and father not being involved in her life. Be sure to look for someone that is a "registered play therapist" or "RPT" on their credentials. Hope that helps - A.

Have you taken her to a therapist? It sounds like a situation in which it makes sense to seek the help of professionals. The sensitivity to sounds and the annoyance with other people's movements in the class sounds like it could be something very mild on the autism spectrum, but I am not a doctor so I do not know but I would definitely seek outside help with a qualified therapist that specializes in working with young children. This seems especially important given the family history of mental disorder. Good luck to you.

I'm not sure... glad you're talking to the doctor. Sounds like she's got a lot going on. Maybe she would benefit from seeing a child psychologist? He/She might be able to give you some insight into what is going on and how to handle it. Is there a school counselor that might be able to assist or point you in the right direction?

M.,
My advice comes from my experience as a teacher of 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 year olds. It sounds like your daughter is seeking any kind of attention she can get from the adults around her. Unfortunately, she is in a pattern of getting attention for her negative behavior. I think you can break the cycle and help her learn to get attention for her positive behavior.
Sit down with the teacher on Monday and let her know that you do not approve of this behavior and that you want to work with her to help your daughter make a change. Make a list of behaviors that you and the teacher want to see your daughter improve upon. Children have more success when they are working on two or three behaviors at a time. Choose one or two big ones like following directions the first time to start with. Come up with a behavior contract for her. The ones I used were quarter sheets of paper divided in half with a line. The top half represented the first half of the day, the bottom half the second half of the day. This way, the child has two opportunities to succeed! On each half write (your daughter's name) followed directions today. Underneath that write (your daughter's name) did not follow directions today. Do the same thing on the bottom half. This is a communication tool between you and the teacher. Talk with your daughter about following directions at school. Explain to her that it is important that all children in class learn to listen to their teacher so that they can learn and stay safe. Tell her that you and the teacher want to help her learn to follow direction so you came up with this contract. Ask her what she wants to get on her contract if she follows directions...a smiley face, star, or sticker (or whatever else you guys decide). Explain to her that if she follows directions in the morning her teacher will put a star on her contract...same for afternoon. She can bring the contract home at the end of every day to show you. You can also come up with some kind of reward at home to encourage the behavior. I suggest meeting with the teacher again in two weeks to check the progress...make adjustments...add a new behavior to the chart...etc.
Once your daughter is improving, you can start weaning off of the contract...give her a reward at home if she gets all stars all week long for example, increasing the amount of time as she improves. She will eventually not need the contract any more.
I hope this is helpful and makes sense...I have an eighteen month old that I am trying to watch, while I type, so it may be a little discombobulated...let me know if you need to know more...

M.,
I am sorry to hear this is going on. How challenging for you and especially her. I do not have a guess at what is going on but I know someone who offers amazing coaching with families and helps them develop great resources to support whatever is goin on. His name is Dr. Michael Scimeca.
www.scimeca.com
Hope this supports you and your daughter.
Blessings,
S.

Please take her to doctor and then go have her hearing checked with ENT dr, also take her to a behavior thearpist. Buy the book on changing behavior in children such as 1-2-3-Magic. Great book and it is short read with great results.I had simlar problems with my grandaughter in K_5 . Try these steps first before you decide on putting her on any meds.I realize that is probably what the school would like to see.If you are in the Charleston,SC area i would love to recommend a behavior thearpist as she was wonderful for my grandaughter.God Bless

Good Morning !

I do understand I went through the same thing w/my son. My not with the same things. We made it to 2nd grade then had him tested by many doctors they came back with ADHD/Depression but the bad thing in our case is no medicine has worked for him. Good Luck

How are you disciplining your daughter? You have got to find a system that works for both of you--for you in that you will absolutely follow through with punishment and for her it really has to be something that she likes to do that you have to take away.

There have to be consequences. She will figure out not to do something, because every time that she does it she does not get to watch television, or her favorite doll is gone---try something called "Love and Logic" the authors are Foster W. Cline and Jim Fay. There are MANY books that they have written on this. They are great. It is all about picking your battles--I would say that behavior is ABSOLUTELY one of them!

I know that you love your child, it is your responsibility as her parent to make sure that she is "socially acceptable"; that she is pleasant for others to be around. That is clearly not happening for her. She will not have friends and the teachers will eventually give up. It all falls on you as a single parent and it is hard. But you do not have a choice.
I am sorry for your situation, but you are catching it early, and it is not too late!
Chris

M., i remember your last post. GOD be with you. I'm sure you know BP disorder is heriditary. PLEASE have her evaluated now. My ex-husband BP was and both children are. I have a friend whose 6 year old was just diagnosed. IF you'd like I can find out the name of their DR...

L.

If her father is BP she could be too Early onset Bipolar disorder.There are alot of ADHD type symptoms with bipolar .Ask your Ped about your concern.You could see a physciatrist just to be safe.I had Nigel my now 11 yr old evaluated once I noticed symptoms at 5.I didn't want it to get out of hand or him lose time having issues to set him back in school.Dr Arnold Negrin is wonderful. ###-###-#### BP is genetic though.I have it too but I adopted Nigel.

It seems like you are doing your best. I haven't went through this type situation except I have problem with a teacher for my ADHD child in kindergarten and i just took him out of school, moved and the following year set him to kindergarten at age 6 hoping he could handle it better...he did with the help of some medication. I'd say start with your doctor and maybe talk with your doctor about a developmental ped dr we had one and she was a great help. I am so sorry your are having this situation to deal with. I also have a spouse with BP he takes meds and it under control for about 4 years now. We are still together but I know where you are coming from. I will keep you in my thoughts. As far as sugar or a medical condition it's possible but maybe it's the situation at hoem and maybe she needs to find a way to vent and this is they way she knows how....I don't know but it's always a good idea to see if it medical but something is sure going on in her mind about all of this a great place to start is with your doctor but if you don't get answers you want and they leave you hanging don't just stop or give up...you are her advocate and she needs you right now.

You are doing the right thing to take her to the doctor and meet with her teacher. Be patient it may take a long time to figure things out. There are a lot of different reasons that this may be occurring both physical and psychological. It sounds like the teacher is willing to work with you. Make a list of concerns before you go to the doctor such as the blood sugar, possibility of food allergies, etc. It is a very long process. Try to be patient and work with the teacher she also has your daughter's best interest at heart. Good Luck!

This is ALOT like my 5yo son who just started kindergarten. I'm glad I'm not alone! (He even makes up similar excuses like not liking the way a kid was drawing something.) We had a conference with his teacher about a month ago and she came up with a behavior chart that lists three behaviors (keeping hands to himself, listening/doing what he's told, not talking/distracting the teacher during reading time) and each day he gets "graded" on each behavior in the morning and the evening. He either gets a smiley face for good behavior, a straight face meaning he was first warned but then behaved, or a sad face for being warned and still not behaving. It he gets all six smiley faces in a day he gets to go straight to the "treasure box" and pick out a prize at school. Plus we reinforce positively at home. If he gets at least four smiley faces in a day, he still gets to place a checkmark on his chart at home and earns points to small prizes. And if he gets less than four smiley faces, then he doesn't get a check mark and he also doesn't get any tv or dessert after dinner.

So far, most days he gets four smiley faces, which is definitely an improvement. Though he had a really rough week last week which is disappointing. But I think this approach with positive reinforcement is very good. There are other things we are trying too (my mother-in-law happens to be a behavioral psychologist, so she has a lot of helpful ideas.)If you think this approach might work, I can always give you more details. It won't solve everything, but it's a step in the right direction. Good luck!

I would like you to know that some K-5 teachers are unreasonable. Let me tell you my experiance...
My son started kindergarten...he could already read and knew all his letters and wrote them OK for a 5 year old.
My son is hyper active- he has TONS of energy. The teacher would hand out an assignment they had 20 minutes to complete. My son would finish it in 5 minutes, which left him with nothing to do for the remaining 15 minutes. He has trouble behaving unless he has something to do. She actually expected my child to sit still in his chair with his hands in his lap for the 15 minutes. He could not do that, so when ghe squirmed, he would be sent to the office. 3 office visits in one week causes automatic suspension. I went to the first conference and she said he had to learn to sit still- I explained that he needs to be kept busy to behave, could he read a book after he finished his work? she said NO- because it might make some of the other kids feel bad because they could not read yet...so I asked could he do some extra work? NO- it wouldnt be fair she said- so I asked if maybe he could draw? again, NO- he was not allowed to do anything except sit still and be quiet.
He was suspended 5 times in his kindergarten year for not sitting still in his seat. Not because he talked back or was violent or anything else, just because he could not sit still. They insisted he be tested for ADHD- which I now know was illeagal- a school is NOT allowed to suggest anything of the sort. I took him to his doctor, who, without even examining him wrote me a prescription for adderal time release medication. I started him on the medicine and it was horrid. He was on the lowest dose they make. He would come home and lay on the couch and cry. He stopped getting hungry, and I almost had to force feed him for the duratuion. I talked to his doctor, who said there is not a lower dose in any type of ADHD medicine, so, after 3 months of agony, I took him off the adderal.
He is now in 3rd grade. He attends a special school for the gifted (that the school district sent him to because of standardized test scores being so high), making straight A's. He still has a few issues with being hyper, but nothing like it was at the other school.
One of the things that helped calm him down was diet change. He no longer eats anything processed, meaning no chemical additives or dyes- and mostly fresh veggies, fruits, organic foods, etc. It made a remarkable difference.
I will never medicate my child because the phamacy world is all profit, no long term studies, unknown effects, etc. There is absolutely no proof yet that this stimulant medicine they give our young developing children isnt causing long term heart problems. And there is also no proof some of the ADHD behavior is not caused by chemical/dye additives in their food.
My son is especially sensitive to red dye #40- which is illeagal in countries across the world because it causes excitability in children, but is in everything here is the US- even in WHITE icing.
Be careful, and do your research. before you agree to medicate, try another alternative. Try the diet change, My entire family changed how we eat- My husband no longer gets heartburn, I no longer get menstrual cramps, none of us has had a headache in 2 years (other than self inflicted...lol...new years day) and my son behaves 100 times better.
And, lastly, sometimes there is nothing wrong with the child at all, it is the teacher.
Sometimes children with behavior problems at school are just bored because they are smarter than the others.
Sometimes, they are learning behaviors from the other children they had not been around before.

Whatever it is, dont let the school bully you into anything.
And remember, they are under NO circumstances allowed to even suggest you put her on any medication. They can not even mention ADD or ADHD unless you bring it up- if they do, you can actually sue the school district.
Good Luck

Hi M..
I am going through the same thing with my daughter. I never would have thought that my daughter would have been in trouble at school, since she is so fun-loving and playful. She is very interested in being the center of attention and she is very openly affectionate with everyone she meets.

Sound like a really sweet kid, right? She is - however, that is not the type of personality that will excel in school! My daughter is smart - don't get me wrong, but she is constantly in trouble. From wanting to console the student who is crying because they got put in timeout, to interjecting when the teacher is reading a book. Behaiving like this would not be a problem at home, but it is a deal-breaker at school.

So here is what we did:
1. We put her in a private, Christian school who has a very strict policy on behavior. Crazy right? not really... Here's why: Her teacher LOVES her, and prays for her and with her everyday. When her teacher has to discipline her, she does it in a loving way, not an angry way. There are specific rules, that are well known throughout the classroom, and when you break the rules, you are no longer able to participate in the class.
2. We set up rules for the house that matched the rules for the classroom. A. You must obey Mommy and Daddy. B. You must respect the house. C. You must obey your teacher at all times. D. You must have a cheerful heart when you obey.
3. The teacher grades her everyday, from E to U. E - Excellent to U - Unacceptable. On the E days, we flip out! She gets a treat - she gets to overrule our dinner plans - and if she wants to go out to eat pizza or whatever, we do it! It is part of the positive re-inforcement. When she gets a U day... (which happens - she is still working on it) she comes home from school, changes into PJs, eats a peanut-butter and jelly sandwich, has milk, brushes her teeth, and goes to bed. She does not even do homework. She gets no interaction time with me, her father or her brother. If she is not asleep within a 1/2 hour, we take away a toy from her room, another 1/2 hour, another toy. We are clear in advance that these are the consequences of disobedience, and she understands. She didn't fight it... mainly because I told her this very calmly and simply. There was no strife or anger... Also, if she gets 3 U days in a row, she gets a (symbolic) spanking.

Seems like I am writing a book! :)
I have only scratched the surface, so have any questions, feel free to PM me.

I know I felt terrible when I got that call from the teacher - so I know exactly how you feel!

Good luck and God-bless.
S.

I don't have a five year old, but have you looked into her diet? You may find it interesting to look up the "dirty dozen" food additives or investigate the impact of processed foods on some people's behavior. There may be something else driving her behaviour, but this is worth considering.
Good luck!