8 Year Old Boy Who Is Sleepy a Lot and Spacey

A child can have attention deficit disorder, without the hyperactivity component. It must be diagnosed by a physician. If he has attention deficit, it would interfere with his concentration.

I think you are right in doing what you have done to try and help him get better sleep. It is best to do these things before going to the doctor because the doctor will probably suggest this stuff at the first appt anyway and you will pay a bill that could have been avoided.
I think it is time to take him to the doctor. Who knows what the problem may be. Maybe his fatigue is causing the loss of concentration and memory. Maybe there is a medical reason for the fatigue.
Has he been under increased stressors?
Just a suggestion. Good luck.

My son too was a fantastic reader then started refusing to read more than a page at a time. After about a year of this, his teacher suggested we look into vision therapy. We did, and things have improved remarkably. Although my son had 20/20 vision, a series of deeper testing showed that his eyes were not 'teaming' well, making the smaller print that an 8yr. old is expected to be able to read much harder, making comprehension difficult, and a lot of complaints of tiredness (eyes and brain working overtime). Now his handwriting and coordination is greatly improved and he has gone from reading 75 words/minute to 116 - and I have to ask him to put his book down!

I would suggest taking him to the doctor for a complete physical -- mono can catch anyone I think -- just to be on the safe side.

Has there been any change in diet, lifestyle or etc? Is this something sudden or has it really snuck up on you? How is his reading when he's with you -- have you noticed anything different now as opposed to prior to him starting school? Is there any history of dyslexia or later developed dyslexia in your family? How's his energy level outside of school?

I'm thinking about environmental factors as well as physical things.

Take care and hang in there!
J.

I have personal experience with two possible factors (I'm sure many other possibilities exist).

One possibility is boredom. I almost flunked third grade. A teacher thought I was too bright for that, so had the school test me. They put me into an accelerated program that challenged me more, and I was able to stay awake in class. Does your son get to choose any of his reading material? Does he have particular interests he would like to pursue? If so, help him find books on those topics and see if he stays more engaged.

My daughter had a terrible time being interested enough in math to stay awake while doing her homework. Even my coaching seemed to make it worse. So she took the bare minimum of math until she discovered she needed some really heavy-duty classes as a pre-med student. When she actually WANTED to learn it, she did spectacularly well.

Another cause of sleepiness AND spaciness is allergy or chemical sensitivities. I lived in an apartment once where I simply could not stay awake. I dragged myself through cooking and housekeeping, and as soon as I sat down to read or watch TV, I would fade into heavy but unsatisfying sleep. I'd be fine half an hour after I left the place. It was a new apartment and filled with smells from carpets, construction glues, plastics and paint, which I learned years later I was sensitive to. I also found mold growing against an exterior closet wall (a sprinkler hit the outside wall every night). Certain foods can also trigger extreme drowsiness for me. You might want to pay attention to when and where your son seems the sleepiest. Allergies and sensitivities can become a problem at any point in life, and so you might notice a physical cause that was never a problem before.

Hi, I'm sorry that this isn't in response to your question, but I read your about me section and I am a stay at home mom with my two step children. They are 10 and 5, and I've been with them since my 5 yr old was 2. I help at the school 2 days a week, and am also the cub scout pack secretary. I would love to be able to chat with someone who is my same position with her children. Thanks!
K.

Just a caution: you may have to fight to have him thyroid tested. Some drs don't like to test kids that young, especially if there's no family history, so you may have to stick to your guns. My son is like yours (although he's 21 now) he was always tired in class although very bright. He's been hypothyroid for years we found out, but no doctor would test him before he was an older teen. Wished I'd known to push sooner! Best of success and don't give up!

The Doctor is the answer here....you can rule out all the bad queastions and then start to work on a plan to help him.

Hi J.. Have you taken your son to the doctor and made sure he is not struggling with some medical condition that is new? There are many possible medical conditions that effect energy and attention, and some of them present themselves in early elementary school. Make sure he is not dealing with a medical condition.

For reading concerns please consult your school psychologist and student intervention team at your son's school. They will have advice and will have data to help generate intervention ideas for your son. There are a lot of talented school staff who will help you. You are not alone with handling this.

J. - maybe he is having seizures. Some kids have seizures and appear "spacey". If he was, then that would explain the tiredness too.

Hi J.,

We just discovered that our 3 year old has obstructed sleep apnea. He has the opportunity to receive plenty of sleep (about 11-12 hours each night), but he is always tired, never quite focused and sometimes very crabby. Our peditrician suggested taking him to Children's for a sleep study at their clinic in Bellevue, which we did last month. We are now waiting to schedule our son's surgery to remove his tonsils. We are hoping this will solve our little guy's problem. I'm not sure if this will help Dylan, but I would suggest talking to his doctor about it.

Good luck!
~ K.

hi J.--
the 2 things i would rule out with a doc visit is blood sugar issues, (hypo or hyper) and epilepsy. sometimes seizures can just make a kid look a little "spacy" and then he checks back in. just rule those out, then you can go on to other things.
take care--M.

Hi J.,
Try to get your son a good multi-vitamin as sometimes the symptoms of too much Vit A are tiredness, but also make sure he is getting enough of B vitamins (oxygen to the brain)as well as folic acid and omega-3 supps are a great addition to the diet. Rainbow Light is a good vitamin brand.
Also, make sure he is eating well (enough protein, decrease sugar, decrease processed foods (chips, crackers, etc) and a good amount of water. Exercise, fresh air and keep him reading. Explain to him what the pages are saying as he reads.
Hope this helps!

Dear J., What a blessed family you all sound like! It seems like you have taken some good first steps to make his sleep time better/quieter. He may just be having a growth spurt, and it's just making him tired. If it does continue through spring, then maybe consider having him checked for a sleep disorder. I have always had sleep apnea, and my son (now age 26) had some odd sleep behavior as a youngster that manifested to daytime fogginess and sleepiness. Medicine is really getting thorough when it comes to recognizing and treating sleep problems now. I had no idea just how many sleep disorders there are! God bless you as you pursue some answers, and take heart, you are not alone! Good luck! S. Teague

Take him to the DR. The spacing out can be seizures. It can also be a sign of something else. Or it could just be his personality.
But the best way to put your mind at ease, and see if he needs anything else is to go to the DR.
Good luck
B.

J.,

Keep a journal of all the times you see this happening and go see a neurologist- your description is of a child who may be having petite mals- small brain seizures. My nephew had the same thing which was corrected by medication for about two years, and then he grew out of it. My oldest son had grand mal seizures and was on medication for ten years and has now grown out of it. It is VERY important that you get this looked into properly. I am a teacher and have had many experiences with children demonstrating this behavior and it is very difficult for them to keep up in school because they keep missing things.

Dr. Brian Vlcek in Seattle worked with our family and he was wonderful with my son- he spent time talking to him and asking very relevant questions about my son's school experience and what he was experiencing at home, school and extra-curricular activities. Dr. Vlcek is at Swedish in Seattle.

C.

I think if it were my son, I would definately bring this to the doctor's attention. ANY major change in our kids is a reason to worry. No, I don't think that you are reading too much into it... if nothing else, the doctor may recommend counselling if there is no acutal medical cause for your son's sudden regression. You are not overreacting to your child... if you feel there is cause for concern, there usually is. They don't call it "women's intuition" for nothing.

J.,
I just read a book about cleansing and the author wrote about symptoms of a diet with too much yeast and sugar. One of the symptoms was tiredness, spaciness, poor concentration, protruded belly etc.... If you notice that he is eating mostly pasta, breads, sugary starchy food and getting tired right after he eats too, you may want to try stirfry meat and vegetable meals. Eggs in the morning instead of sugary cereals. No soda. Exercise and diet does wonders for our concentration and performance as well as our outlook on life. Good Luck. T. B

My family was affected very badly in a home we were living in for over a year, it had toxic mold growing in the heating system, after a professional cleanup that wasn't fully done. My 7 year old became very "groggy" alot and became quite air headed. One day she did excellent math and reading, then seemed as though she shut down almost the next, and this situation increased until we investigated the home our selves and discovered the mold. Alergies, chemicals, mold spores. Anything is possible. It all affects people in different ways. My husband developed walking phenonia after a 3 month lay off and was in the home. Go with your instinct and count out all your worries. There is no harm in finding answers to any questions that might arise. Anything is possible.

I have herd from multiple people, doctors and articles that children need at least 14 hours of sleep a day and of corse they need to eat a good breakfast.

Its sound to me like he may have an iron deficiency or anemia. This can be brought on by a whole range of other things including other vitamin deficiencies, heredity, too much caffeine(as in soda pop), and all sorts of other things. You may want to have your pediatrician test for this and hopefully determine the cause. Its fairly common, I know because I had it when I was a kid and still get low on iron to this day if I don't take extra steps for prevention. You cannot just put him on iron supplements to get rid of the problem unfortunately. You have to first determine the cause then proceed with a treatment. Putting him on iron supplements could be hazardless to his health, and I want to stress that you need to take him to the doctor before treating him. If it turns out this is the problem, you should be able to get it under control in a short amount of time. I hope this is helpful. I have two children myself and I know how much it hurts when they hurt.
I have read some responses to your question. Some of the responders are expressing concern about taking the child to the doctor. I don't want any one to feel this way, especially when your child's health is at stake. I believe in home remedies, and naturopathic medicine also. I believe that a proper diet can help with many issues of ill health and is certainly of utmost importants. I urge you not to fear the doctor, instead go to your doctors office armed with knowledge. Ignorance seams to bring on fear. The internet is your vast resource of information. You can find all sorts of likely causes based on your sons symptoms. Print it off, take it with you to the doctor. Ask for the tests you want, don't take no for an answer and be vocal about what your concerns are. Ask all the questions you can and take notes. If you are concerned about a pill or treatment, go home and research it for yourself and go with your gut! If one doctor proves difficult or does not work with you, find another. We have to take responsibility for our health care. If you just walk in and expect your doctor to look at the child you see everyday, and diagnose him in 10 minutes, then you will be disappointed. Remember, you know your child best and you can help your doctor diagnose him best. Don't fear healthcare, help to make it work for you. ok...I am done ranting now, sorry if I have offended anyone.

The first thing I would check is DIET, DIET DIET. Sugar and white flour are bad bad bad for this problem. When I eat the flour and sugar for breakfast, I get tired and spacey and have to go back to bed - in the morning!!

If you have a standard American breakfast in the morning of ceral and sugar, or pancakes, or toast or waffles with jam - you may be exhausting your son. These items give you a sugar rush, then drop you and make you VERY sleepy. They also give you very little nutritional value.

Feed your son proteins, fruit, nuts in the morning - NO sugar (except fruit) or white flour and see what happens. I actually like to eat fish in the mornings - brain food.

If that doesn't work, try this. Check for food allergies. My daughter's brain shuts down when she eats gluten. She is gluten intolerant. It's amazing what food can do to the brain. If I hadn't taken her off of wheat, she would be brain damaged "autistic" by now.

Also the school lunches are PATHETIC!!! -Wacky Waffles, Corn Dogs, Pizza? This is junk food, not lunch. Yes, they offer them carrots. I have sat in the cafeteria with my daughter. Very few children are actually eating the "rabbit food" portion of their meals. School lunches are high in fat, processed sugar, processed flour, and low in vitamins and enzymes. Make sure you pack a healthy lunch as well.

I think you will be amazed at the change.

By the way, medical doctors RARELY look at diet. My daughter would have been diagnosed with Autism instead of Celiac Disease, had I gone to an MD (I took her to my Naturopath when I realized she had a problem). Try this dietary change for a couple of days. If you see no change in maximum 3 - 4 days, then I would go to a doctor right away, check for seizures, check for other disorders.

And of course radon. Or heavy metal (lead, mercury,?) poisoning. (All my other ideas were already mentioned.)

But definitely get him to a doctor (MD or ND)!! If his brain is having trouble firing, that needs to be figured out! Hopefully it is just that the material doesn't engage him ... but if there is damage, better to find it out ASAP, especially since some of the things so far suggested get worse unless you stop the problem.

Courage :)!

If this isn't his normal behavior I would be concerned. Talk to his father and take him to the doctor to address your concerns. When you go to the doctor, take a list of symptoms and dates they started to occur. Also, list any significant events that happened around that time. Don't be dramatic. Be clam and prepared. I think that you should be concerned but use your problem solving skills to get to the bottom of this. It may just be nothing.

there was an article recently about kids with sleep apnia. or he could be getting anemic. there are alot of things that could be a simple fix. I would go to the pediatrician. I think you would get the answer there.

I would suggest taking him to a doctor. Better to be safe than sorry.

I would check into a sleep apnea problem. I have a friend with a little boy that had sleep problems and really struggled during the day. If he is not getting enough sleep, close to 12 hours a night then he will have trouble concentrating and he will be to tired. Good luck

It could just be that he's bored at school or doesn't like the teacher. Just like in work some people click and some people don't. Either way, it wouldn't hurt to take him to an outside source like Sylvan for an assessment. If they agree, there could be a learning disability. Better safe than sorry!

With the sleepiness, he might just need to go to bed earlier. My daughter is a sleeper. She can easily sleep 12 hours a night plus another hour or so during the day. If she doesn't get the sleep she needs she starts getting spacey and sometimes tempermental. (She's 5) She's extremely social with kids her age and picks up on things very fast but she does go through regression every once in awhile where she was good at somthing before but can't seem to remember how to do it now. He might have gotten overloaded going to a higher level of reading.
You might want to check with your physician anyways to see if there might be an underlying problem. It definately never hurts to check with them but it might help to put him to bed earlier.
My husband used to let my daughter stay up until I insisted that she needed more sleep than what she was getting because she was starting to have behavioral issues at school. Once she started getting more sleep (it was hard to change to an earlier bedtime) she started excelling in school.

Definitely go with your instinct and take him to the doctor. Could be nothing, but only a doctor can make a diagnosis. Always go with your gut reaction with kids, is my opinion. Can't do any harm to meet with his doctor. Make sure you write all the "symptoms" down, and the dates when you noticed a change, and the things you've done to help improve it (taking noisy things out of his room). Never worry about giving your dr. too much information. Even the littlest thing could help shed light on a situation.
Could be food thing too -- allergies to food, not eating the right food for him, but you can't know for sure until you meet with professionals.
Good luck! Write again to tell us how it goes.

sounds like you may need to look at his diet, he may be having food allergies or blood sugar problems.

I would definitely take him to the doctor. With the symptoms you mentioned is sounds like a Doctor would be able to help you out. The spacey and sleepiness would be a red flag to me. I hope all works out for you both.

J.-

Get your son to the doctor NOW!! The tiredness really concerns me. The drop in reading level and the inability to stay focused are also very serious symptoms. It may be nothing, but such a dramatic chenge in behavior and acheivement is extremely disturbing. DO NOT WAIT!!!!!

My 18 year old brother has had similar symptoms throughout his school life, but they have been getting worse (i.e. extrememly tired, depressed, cannot focus). My mom took him to get evaluated for ADD, but that came back negative. She noticed he was snoring a lot more and had him do a sleep apnea (sp?) test and sure enough, that was the correct diagnosis. He is waking up 200 times a night (approx every 3 minutes). Something to consider...

Hi Jeanne,

I have mentioned this in several posts already, but parasite overgrowth can contribute to the symptoms you mentioned. You can have a nauturopath test you and all of your family. It is well worth it! I had them for 15 years and did not know it. We take 3 lac and you can get it on www.globalhealthtrax.org
It is all natural and great!~

Blessings,

K.S.

J.,
I had this issue as a child. I walked around in a fog for most of my life. I was tested for food allergies by a Naturopathic doctor and found out that Wheat, Gluten, Whey and Eggs where a big problem for me. Once I eliminated these out of my diet an amazing thing happened. I felt like I went from the foggy Benadrly feeling to a clear and crisp world. Food allergies/intolerences may be the problem. If he is playing a lot of Video games or watching TV, he may be getting too much stimulation and isn't getting enough REM sleep because his mind just won't shut off to rest.(I have this problem as an adult.)The books he is reading might not interest him which would make it difficult to focus. Also see if his room is dark enough. We put a black sheet over our boys window and it works great. Exercise and getting outside in the sun is great too. It helps to regulate your wake sleep cycle which can lead to better sleep.
Check our the possibility of food allergy/intolerences and sleep disorders.
Be Well, A.

It sounds like a trip to the doctor might be a good idea, if he is tired a lot, can't concentrate and is spacey, make sure that there is nothing medically wrong. You will feel better knowing that he is okay and maybe his physician will be able to help identify why these things are happening.

J.,

My first thought was maybe sleep apnea, but I'm not a doctor. How is his temper? Both my husband and father in law have sleep apnea, and when they don't use the machine they are supposed to to help them sleep, they get real short tempered. Another thought I had about the reading was dyslexia. I don't know enough about it to know for sure (again, I'm not a doctor) but you might want to check into that.

All through my schooling years I've always had a problem with math of any kind; I always struggled with simple equations, and to this day still don't know my multiplication tables. A couple of years ago I found this website for mathimatical dyslexia (dyscalcula I think). I have diagnosed myself with this affliction, only because 8 out of 10 symptoms fit me.

What's the relevance? I dunno, but if your son needs help because of a problem, the earlier the better. I'd talk to his doctor too.

Hope this helps,
Melissa

Hi, J.:
Before considering taking your son to a medical doctor, have you considered looking at his diet? What is his diet like? Is he consuming enough water? Drinking plenty of H2O has amazing affects on our attentiveness, as well eating recommended amounts of fresh fruits, veggies, whole grains & protein. I work for a chiropractor & we see many children & have great results. We look at diet & exercise, as it is the safest (& least expensive) to start with! Make sure your son has enough time to play outside & use his energy, not in front of the TV or computer. Fresh air is a must!

Could he have allergies? Or could he be worried and not sleeping. (as I was as a child after my older brother died)
Apparently his biological Mom moved out of his life, could he now be worried you will too? Or did a Mom recently leave children he goes to school with. Or some child loose a Dad.
A check up with a doctor and if nothing that way seems to be wrong then the fear factor would be my next thought. Good Luck!

sounds like he may be hypothyroid, allergies... I would definitely take him to the doctor and find out what is going on. I would try to find an IFM doctor in your area. Going to a reglar doctor would only try to put him on drugs. (I wouldn't consider drugs for hypothyroid bad). Good luck!

I am an ex-elementary teacher, not a doctor, but I think I would take him to a neurologist. A sudden switch in academic performance may mean something is going on with him physically. Or, was there some kind of trauma (emotional or physical) around the time you noticed the reading difference? Good luck. You could maybe consult with the Special Education teacher at your son's elementary school to find out if she can recommend someone for him to see.

Hello J.:

I too have a child that has a hard time sleeping or getting enough sleep. I bought a white noise maker for her room and she sleeps much more soundly now. As for the attention problems, make sure he is getting enough protein with his carbs and very little sugar, so that he can maintain his energy longer. You might also check with the school about when lunch time is, as my daughter's is at a strange time, so they have a snack inbetween.
I would also read up on ADD and look for some tips for natural treatments, this may help some. I am not saying he is ADD but sometimes the factor that lead to symptoms of ADD can be treated regardless. Reading comprehension is a tough battle for children, as they can read well but not retain which then leads to slower reading and more tiredness doing so(it takes more energy). Look for a reading/tutoring program in your area(Riggs) or something that deals with reading comprehension. I wish you the best of luck in your quest.

Make sure that he is eating protein for breakfast not just carbs. Try eggs, meat, etc. Many borderline ADHD kids will benefit from a change in their diet, especially breakfast. His body will burn through cereal too quickly to be any use.

Hi J.,

Don't be afraid to ask for help or seek medical advise. You are not reading too much into it. You're better off finding out the problem and getting to the solution ASAP for your son now while he is still young and his brain is developing. When your at child's school ask for referrals to counselors, they will be able to stir you in the right direction. You have to be the advocate for son's education.

We started too late with our child and she still struggles with certain learning areas - Phonics is a tough one for her.

Good Luck!
L.

It is not normal for his cognitive abilities and energy level to decrease like that in such a short amount of time for no reason. In my opinion, you are not reading too much into it. His symptoms fit perfectly with lead poisoning and many other less dangerous things like sleep apnea. You need to schedule an appointment with his pediatrician ASAP and get this figured out!

Better safe than sorry!!!

Definitely take him to the regular doctor to rule out anything obvious in their exams (blood work etc) and then if that doesn't produce any answers, perhaps taking him to a naturopath for even greater detailed screening including diet sensitivities.

also, second grade is the 'year' for under developing eyes to surface for kids who need glasses. my 8 year old daughter just got her own specs along with 3 other children in her class. her academics are back up to speed. previously she had headaches daily and was really distracted by the interference-- she in general felt a disconnection because everything was blurry! the school vision screening didn't catch it either-- we went to an eye doctor who used dialation drops to get an accurate reading.

best of luck!

I would suggest calling the Alderwood Vision Therapy Center in Lynnwood and scheduling an appointment for your son to get checked for vision issues related to reading. The lead doctor there, Dr. Nancy Torgerson, is a renowned behavioral opthomologist and people travel from all over Washington to see her. There is a 2-3 month wait to see HER specifically, but any of the doctors in her office can do the testing so if you call, just tell them you are willing to see anyone in the office. Alderwod Vision does a series of 7 or 8 tests that are not performed by regular eye doctors. Your son could have a vision issue that would go undetected at regular eye check-ups or school vision checks. The spacing out, being tired when reading/working at school, and having a slower reading rate now are all signs that he could possibly have a vision issue. I am a certified teacher and Director of Education for Sylvan and I see kids with these kinds of issues all the time. Many have been helped by Alderwood Vision. Your son may not have a vision problem at all, but it's better to get him tested now and find out. You can watch all of the testing while it's being done and they will give you a detailed report later that can be very informative. The number for Alderwood Vision Therapy Clinic (if you decide to call) is ###-###-####. If you are unsure, they hold information sessions once a month in the evening for parents. Good luck with your son!

Hi J.,

I have a 3 year old that is delayed in speech/language, but is very bright. Her childcare teacher noticed that she had trouble concentrating and she and I noticed that my daughter would "space out". She would simply stare and would not respond, or would get a lost look on her face and maybe wander aimlessly around the room and not respond. These episodes were up to a minute or two and nothing any of us did would cause her to respond.

I don't know if that is like what your son is experiencing, however when we looked into it there was some concern that she was having very mild seizures. We had her tested with a 20 minute EEG, which showed nothing abnormal. There were further tests that would show more, but we have held off on them for various reasons. The mild seizures, if that is what they were, could have been at least part of what was causing her language delay as it affects the brain. But, there are also other possibilities of what caused both problems. The episodes have lessened over the last year and a half and she has been making huge advances in her language abilities.

So, all that to say, I would encourage you to discuss what is going on with your doctor. If your son's "space outs" do not match possible seizures, that's great. But, if they do, you may catch something and help him get back on track. Or the doctor may have other advice.

Best of Luck!

Jenn

J.

At this point I would take him to the DR. There could be several reasons he is tired and spacey. My husband suffered from childhood epilepsy, and one of the biggest things he was critized for in school was spacing out, being tired and not trying hard enough. He still takes a long time to process anything he reads. Not that this is the situation with your son, I don't want to scare you, but don't be afraid to get medical advice to rule out all possibilities. You can also ask the school psycologist to perform comprehension tests to see if he/she sees any reasons for concern in your sons retention of what he reads. Good Luck!

Is it possible he has allergies? My son would get that way during fall and spring. He didn't really show definite signs of allergies but my husband does so I checked into it. I talked with his pediatrician and started giving him allergy medication at night before going to bed during those seasons. It made a world of difference.