Babysitter / Nanny

Jill is working when she is babysitting. You wouldn't go hang out with her if she were working in an office or at the supermarket. So why hang out with her while she is babysitting?

And it doesn't matter how much Jill is getting paid or what she does while there. That's between Jill and Jane.

Why do I feel like I just read a math word problem about trains going in opposite directions and the final question is "what color hat was the conductor wearing?"

I don't understand your question. Jill should be completely isolated from adult contact? Is she capable of doing her job well when you are there? Are you distracting her? And why are you asking strangers instead of asking the woman paying her apparently irrelevant to this question salary? Why wouldn't you ask Jill or Jane? And are those really their names?

Eta per SWH - employer sets terms. Employee agrees to terms. If terms are unacceptable, no one is forcing employee to work. Yes, you are overstepping your bounds. You are not part of the employer/employee relationship. This is between Jill and Jane, and a real friend doesn't act in ways that get friends in trouble.

ETA: you PUT yourself in the middle of this by inciting her.

Ugh.
Jane pays Jill to watch her kids, not to hang out with you. At her house.
The answer is whatever Jane ( the employer ) says it is.
If Jill doesn't like that, she can find another job.

I can't imagine anyone over the age of 16 not understanding the situation. Sounds like Jane was pretty clear. What part don't you understand?
To answer your question: "Am I overstepping boundaries?"
Yes.

I don't see what Jills pay rate has to do with it and I *think* you might be leaving out a piece or two to this puzzle.

Your friend Jill is WAY out of line having friends over and having 'girl time' with you while on the clock, period. In any other job, our friends can't just show up and hang out with us, right? Why does Jill think this gig with Jane is any different?

As a nanny, I have had one or two friends come over while I was working. These friends were known to the families, they were there for a short time and a specific purpose (to pick me up, once when the parents of a family were out of town on my birthday, we had a small 'party' with my husband, the one friend, and the kids I was caring for) AND I expressly asked permission from the family for each individual time they would be around the kids and gave the context for this. Because I was very respectful of the family's reasonable concern for the children's safety, I made sure to communicate with the parents.

Because I was a reasonable person who understood boundaries, they trusted me. Had I shown the grievous error of judgment which your friend Jill did, I likely would have been fired. Why? Because I was working.

The fact that your friend 'gets everything done' means that her time should be spent focused solely on the kids, not that she just gets to 'hang out' while on the clock.

I am not sure how Jane put either of you in the 'middle' of this. Jill wasn't answering her phone, she wasn't at a place where she said she would be, she wasn't communicating the plans with Jane. I'm sorry, but it shows an extreme level of poor judgment and a lack of professionalism. You do realize a big part of your post is about justifying 'if she can do errands for Jane why can't she come hang out for three hours without telling the mom where her kids are or even asking to do this', right? You are trying to justify Jill's poor decision-making and obvious immaturity and lack of consideration with "well, Jane lets her do the errands".... Iisten, B., Jane PAYS Jill to do these things. If Jill doesn't like the specifics or limitations of the job, she should quit. Personally, If I was Jane, Jill would have been fired without notice for the abysmally poor judgment. It sounds like something a high-schooler would do, not grown adult mothers who would understand another mother's concerns and be respectful in communicating plans.

All my sitters asked permission to have friends over. I always said yes but if they didn't ask I would have been highly upset.

If my sitter left my kids with that person and went out I would never allow her to babysit again. I am not paying a friend, I am paying my sitter.

Jill should have asked, she is lucky she wasn't fired because what you describes screams immaturity. You are the only one causing drama.

Per your re: I never told my sitters not having friends over was a rule, they knew you are an employee, and we are talking 13 to 15 year old children! They knew, how old are you? You put yourself in the middle by calling her, if you had minded your own business this would have been between her and her boss. I really have to wonder your age because you sound so immature.

I'm really sorry, but I agree with Veruca saying this is like the train leaving two stations at the same time going different speeds where willl they pass...and I also can't help thinking "Jack and Jill went up a hill..." Sorry, but this is confusing.

Anyways, the employer sets the rules always. If I trust my sitters, I'm fine with them having someone over. My daily sitter is allowed to have her fiance over, takes my kids to her mom's house, to her aunt's house, etc. We trust her 100% to keep our kids her main priority no matter who is around.

Two summers ago we had a sitter and allowed one of her friends over (both college students who had my mom as their professor). The kids liked the friend better, so the more often she was around, the happier they were.

"At risk" and hanging out are different things. You don't specify what that was that caused her to be angry.

Bottom line, I would stay out of it between them. If the mother no longer wants her children taken on outings or errands or for the sitter to have any company over during the time the children are there, and the sitter can't watch the kids without having that ability then they need to stop this arrangement. If my friend was babysitting and said that our visits had to be changed so she could keep her job, I'd respect that.

ETA: You mention in your SWH that you can only be there when Jane is - so Jill is watching the children in Jane's home. Absolutely Jane has the right to know who is in her home, when, and to forbid any extra company when Jill is supposed to be working. That little tidbit is KEY. It's not Jill watching Jane's kids in Jill's home. It's Jill inviting extra people (mutual friends or not) to Jane's home. If by "I did babysit her kids, too" you meant you got involved in their care while Jill was working, that was also over the line. Jane did not hire you. Jane hired Jill. If she wanted you to watch her kids, she would be paying you. I would be unhappy about that, too.

Jill running her own errands on Jane's time is one thing. Jill going shopping for fun with you and not answering her phone is another. Again, tell Jane and Jill to talk, back out, and respect that they are not just your friends but have an employer/employee relationship. It sounds like Jane got upset when her child's caregiver was not available for her to contact BECAUSE the caregiver was hanging out with a friend. And that is understandable. If Jill only works a few days, PICK ANOTHER DAY! JILL does not tell JANE when she is hanging out with you. When Jill is on the clock, JANE calls the shots.

If Jill had an office job, would you stop by to hang out? Would that be okay with her boss even if you knew the boss? Do you think the boss would think it was okay as long as you were helping Jill now and then to xerox stuff or answer phones?

Jane is paying Jill to do a job, not to hang out with someone. She's paying $80 a day or $400 a week plus an occasional bonus. She doesn't want to hear that Jill is bored and needs company. If Jill wants to set up a play date at a park with another family, Jane can approve that. She already allows Jill to do some personal things like errands, which get the kids out of the house, but she's not sending them to Jill's house so Jill can get her own stuff done.

I do think you aren't seeing their relationship as employer/employee. Your presence is distracting Jill from the kids. If she is talking to you, she is not supervising homework or building Legos or watching the kids all the time. Jane wants her kids engaged and not just with someone watching out of the corner of their eye. She may also not want you in her house, dealing with her laundry or the mess she left in the kitchen or seeing her mail or anything else.

I think you need to back off before Jill loses this job and neither woman appreciates your friendship.

well, i think jill is underpaid.
but gio is right, that's not really germane to your question. and like jill's pay, jill and jane's deal isn't really subject to 'is this okay or not?'
if jill agreed to jane's rules, she should abide by them.
the crucial piece missing from this story is what precisely upset jane so much, and caused her to feel as if her kids are 'at risk'.
but the bottom line is that the friendship is irrelevant. jill works for jane, and if her stipulation is that there is to be no socialization within this business relationship, that's the way it is. while there's nothing inherently wrong with someone 'hanging out' while taking care of kids (moms do it all the time) i can totally understand an employer/friend/mom being concerned about the lines getting blurred, and wanting to keep the boundaries absolutely clear.
khairete
S.

One of my friends babysat for a couple of little kids for 2-3 years. She took care of the kids at her house though, not the mother's house. Occasionally bring them to my house, or we'd meet up for lunch, or at the park. She treated those kids in the same manner as how she raised her own.

The main thing I can see different in your situation is that you're going into Jane's house. J. was wrong to invite someone to Jane's house without Jane's prior permission. Jane has made it clear that it isn't okay, and it is reasonable for her to say No to it.

What I don't understand is why J. can't meet you outside of Jane's home in child-appropriate locations. Surely Jane takes her own kids out and interacts with other adults?

I think you included how much she's being paid bc you think she's underpaid and therefore Jane shouldn't make a fuss about anything... If you do live in Beverly Hills, she is being underpaid. If somewhere with a much lower cost of living and it's cash, it's not good pay if she usually gets off at 4:00 (lousy till 8) but it's not horrible. And that is between them. I assume Jill doesn't have other options... I've had a nanny for years and I wouldn't have minded an occasional guest but I would have expected to be asked upfront and if it got to be a habit (every other week), I'd be annoyed too. You're not coming over to help babysit... You're coming over to socialize and that does mean her kids are not getting the same attention. When I have a friend over I don't focus on my kids the same either. And I bet Jane is a bit jealous. She's at work and picturing you guys chatting away. I don't think you committed a horrible sin but at this point, you do need to let it go and figure Jane has a legit point of view. Maybe she could be more generous but she's not being totally unreasonable either.

Feel sorry for the kids. What a boring life. You are all friends so I do t see why Jane is upset. You are not some stranger coming into her home. Jane needs to lighten up unless you are there all day every day.

Sounds like Jane is jealous.

ETA

We just looked away for a moment, I was watching what I was doing while driving, it wasn't my fault. I didn't see anyone around that didn't belong...

All excuses when something happens to kids.

The mom is sitting by a friend and someone kidnaps their kid. They just "looked away for a moment". A babysitter should be in the sand and on the equipment playing with the kiddo. Not sitting on their hiney hanging with their friends.

They get in a car accident and it was the other guys fault. Baby still dead perhaps. Could be because girls were chatting and listening to music loudly and not paying as much attention to other drivers as when they're alone in the vehicle.

Things happen when we're with out friends and we are talking and looking at pics on our phones and not watching the kids all the time. I sit at the park facing the play equipment. I sit with my back facing away. If I'm with a friend they sit with their back to the playground so I can see the kids 100% of the time and I notice if even a new car pulls up. I watch for strange actions on adults parts. I expect something to happen so I am hyper aware in public places. We can't be too careful. At home the kids get a lot more freedom but in public they are quite restricted. The kids are in the basket until they are much older. I don't allow them out of my arms reach when they do get older. I don't give anyone any opportunity to grab one of my kids. They have not idea why they stay so close but I don't take chances.

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If you are both adults then the mom has no business saying who can come to this adults home when her child is present.

If she is babysitting this child in that child's home then you are not an invited guest of the homeowner and in fact trespassing. So stay away.

If she is babysitting the child in her own home she needs to check with the states laws about running an unlicensed child care business because she could be breaking the laws.

When I was a nanny (That means I went to their home all day to watch the kids) I took the kids anywhere and everywhere I wanted. They trusted me to be their kids supervision. If we planned a trip out of town the parents of course funded it and provided the transportation. We took all 8 kids I watched to the OKC zoo on one trip. I took along another adult and paid their way/food so I'd have another adult helping.

I was an adult with children when I was a nanny. I had many years in child care by that time also. I was someone they could trust and they knew it.

If you are not an adult who is a responsible person that is living on their own and the babysitter is not the same then this mom is absolutely right. Her babysitter/nanny should not be doing stuff without her full consent.

As for her pay. She'd be paying a child care facility about the same amount as she's paying your friend. I think the money is good.