Child Support Is Putting a Rift in Our Friendship

Unless he has had full custody for a length of time he has NO idea what it costs to raise a child. clothes and shoes and boots and sandals they constantly grow out of. glasses or medical expenses, and it gets more expensive as they get older, summer camp, instruments sports teams and equipment, dance or art or whatever classes, tutoring if necessary, He will always think you are gouging him, most divorced fathers think their ex wives live high on the hog on their money and will not contribute to extras as they think everything is covered under regular child support. and this will ruin any chance of a friendship. It needs to be done by a third party.

I have child support through the child support office for this exact reason. This is the one thing that will ruin any relationship no matter how good you 2 have it. The child support goes through the child support office and it never has to be talked about.

Hate to say but he is already being difficult and he is manipulating you. Stand back and take a breath. After that, get a lawyer. Sorry he can't afford his bills but the support of his child is the first thing to get paid not the last. She does not get the leftovers he does. If he can't afford the mortgage, then guess what? He needs to move. Its time for him to put the big boy pants on and support his child. He isn't going to understand and its not going to stay civil because you are asking for more money and he doesn't want to give any up. Again, I recommend you consult with an attorney ASAP!

This is why people go through the court system. It takes all of the "feelings" out of it.

And his child shouldn't have to live on what he has "leftover", he should have to live on what he has leftover AFTER he pays child support. That's a fact.

What jumps out at M. is that you said, "the house we BOTH own" and "he makes a good salary (60+) Umm, if he's taking in $1000 in rent, then I would think you'd be entitled to 1/2 of that since you are a part owner. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd stick it to him with the help of a mediator or lawyer. He's jerking your chain, and you're being too nice. Like someone else said, his daughter's needs should be met first, not last.

Court is your only option sweetie. Please don't handle this between yourselves.

Jen:

You need a lawyer. Divorce, child custody and alimony should never be done in a verbal agreement....

Unfortunately for you COURT IS MANDATORY....once a judge tells him what to pay - there will be no "well we agreed to x"...and you will have a judge stipulate how much of the equity you will get from the house you BOTH own...there is no gentleman's agreement here...I know that is not what you want to hear - but that is the fact, bare bones truth.

If you don't go to court - it WILL get messy. Since nothing is set in writing by the courts - there is nothing in writing that states ANYTHING so if he wanted to leave the country with her - he could and you have nothing backing you up....

GO TO COURT AND GET IT ALL IN WRITING - custody (visitation, where you and he can and cannot take her on vacation), alimony, child support, equity in the home you share, etc....

It may be helpful for you to visit an attorney. If you want to keep things civil between the two of you, then maybe you could have him go along WITH you so that he can hear what the attorney (or a good mediator?) will say. Which is to say, the attorney will spell out what your child (and you) are entitled to and what the court typically will/would order in your given situation.
I will say, however, that to save you boat loads and boat loads of trouble down the road, that you need to get a court order in place. Nothing is enforceable without one.

I am curious as well, as to why you own a home together? Were you married? Are you still in the midst of a divorce? Or were you J. living together with a child? The house you "both own" is interesting, because unless your name is on the title or you were married and have a divorce decree giving you part ownership, then maybe you don't own it like you think. Has the home been partitioned?
If you own half, then you should be entitled to half the income it brings, I would think.
And to be quite frank about it, if he (or either of you really) thinks that you will continue to maintain the same standard of living that you had prior to splitting up, you are both dead wrong. It J. can't be that way. Common sense tells you (or should) that you are now maintaining TWO households on what previously maintained ONE. Do the math.
It isn't pretty, but that is the reality. And it really isn't a matter of he has more bills than you or whatever.... you each are required to contribute towards providing for and care for your child. Independent of any debt you or he might have. Are some of the debts he has debts that used to be yours? Then that might mitigate how much of the proceeds you should get from the "rent" he will receive. But none of it should affect what child support should be contributed.

If he's throwing figures like $100 and $200 dollars around, you've got to get official, sorry to say. That's less than my electric or phone bill! Cover your butt! He's not being reasonable.

"Court isn't an option, I don't want it to get messy I somehow want him to understand what is fair and do it civilly?"

Unless a court ordered paternity test would prove that he really isn't the father, then court is really your only option. Get a mediator or find a Legal Aid office if you can't afford an attorney. Your daughter deserves better.

Your ex is responsible for 1/2 of what it takes to support your child, not leftovers. Get an attorney because it will only get worse! What do you think will happen when your ex meets someone new? Nothing will be left over and your child will be out of luck!

No one wants an argument because it is unpleasant and messy. Sady divorce is messy and your ex is in survival mode and you should be too! Protect your child. Do you really want to be friends with someone who wants to support your child their leftovers?

Think about it, he knows what buttons to push to get what he wants. Earn his respect by standing up for your child and then see what happens. At this point your ex will say anything to you to get what he wants. Please wake up!

Been there and done that after a 17 year marriage ended!

Court isn't an option?? It's already gotten messy. And you cannot force someone to understand anything.

I know that you can' tgo back and change anything, but you really should have put an agreement on the books in the beginning. It doesn't matter that you could get by without it. That's not what "child support" is. You have deprived your child the opportunity to do more than "survive". Even if you didn't need to use the money right then, you could have it for savings or emergency, etc....for HER.

And your current situation is exactly why. This is a legal issue--period--no matter what your conclusion or how you reach it. My husband and his ex did not come to their agreed-upon figure through the courts, but it got filed with the courts as soon as they decided what was what.

You should seek counsel. Write out what it takes to care for her each month--diapers, food, daycare, etc.--and decide together how to handle incidentals, healthcare, etc.

Having it on the books is the best way to keep things civil between you, because you can always refer to your agreement, and your requests can't be seen as whimsical and spontaneous. An attorney or counselor who deals with this every day can help you think of things that don't even affect you yet but that need to be on the books in anticipation of times to come. Maybe this will also help him to understand the importance of what you're asking.

Court is your ONLY option. You need to legally arrange for support for your daughter, properly and fairly - and it'll only get messy if he starts fighting back.

How are you going to ensure your daughter gets the support from her father without an enforcable court order? You won't be able to garnish his wages without one (if he stops paying altogether).

I realize you want to keep things friendly for the sake of your daughter, but what kind of friend is HE being by denying you and your daughter the financial support you deserve and are entitled to? A crappy, selfish one that's trying to get away with the bare minimum.

He will not be fair or regular in child support... you MUST realize that, do you not? You should take him to court for child support... after all I am assuming you have your child's well being as your main priority? Why should he have all this expendable income when you are the one paying to house your child and her daycare? That isn't even factoring in food, clothing, medical care/copays/medications, etc.

Realize your child should come before being friends or civil with your ex...

Go to a mediator or arbitrator - NOW. What he says he wants to pay and what he NEEDS to pay are two different things. He can't afford more than 200 a month? Well, you can't afford less than X a month. You need to get someone else involved in all of this ASAP - you are going to get screwed and so is your child.

Sounds like it's already messy and that he's trying to shirk his responsibilities to your child.

Get a lawyer. Go through the courts. Protect yourself. Because right now, he's only looking out to protect himself.

Trying to avoid making things official almost always ends badly for the person who is primarily responsible for caring for the child.

Time to stop being nice, and put your big girl panties on. Now is no time to be passive.

Good luck :-)

You don't have to go to court, but I would get a mediator involved. They can be very helpful and really work to help you both see what is fair. There's a good chance that can afford more than $200 a month, but let someone who isn't attached make that determination.

In the meantime, write down ALL costs associated with your child. Food, clothing, activities, childcare, rent, medical, dental... all of it for a month. Then divide it in half. What does that number look like? Be realistic about what you would "charge" him for, but it may help him to see that the number isn't arbitrary.

Dude, he is pulling the wool over your eyes! Don't fall for it. The court will take into account the income and set him a fair child support.

J. don't count on the money in your monthly budget. It may not come on time, it may get held up due to bad weather and the business owner not making the online deposit correctly, etc...make sure you can live within your means and don't expect it to be there each time it is due.

One of my grandkids dad has never missed a payment, on the same day, the same amount, like clockwork. He changed jobs and his boss didn't want to do the child support payment out of the checks. He would put it off, forget about it, etc...I was calling the dads mother, who lives in the same town, and telling her it hadn't been coming in. The boss had some good excuses why he hadn't paid of course, it was snowy out and my electricity was off, I couldn't get online to make the transfer, I had a contract to fulfill and forgot, he was holding it our but hardly ever making the deposit. The child support enforcement finally filed some paperwork on him and he had to pay a bunch all at once but it bankrupted him and his business closed, of course it was his fault, he should have paid the support like he said he would. But he lost big time. The dad is still having to pay that back child support too. Even though it was help out of his check and he has his check stubs he still owed the child support. The lost money was between him and his employer at that point.

So, my point is you can't always depend on it being there when it's supposed to be there. So don't rent a place that is out of your incomes budget. Don't buy a vehicle that if you don't get the child support you can't make the payment, etc...only live within your means as much as possible. We use our income for the first of the month bills and what ever we can. Then when I get the child support deposit I use it entirely for groceries. We keep a supply of food on hand that would last about 2 months if needed. It would not be totally pleasant to live off it due to it being in the pantry and not the fridge and freezer so no fresh stuff but we would not go hungry. He could even get laid off and go without work for months too.

So, think out your bills but he needs to pay child support equal to his amount of income.

I don't know what I would do to ease the tension. But I would never back off fighting for what is rightfully your child's money. Even if every dime goes into the bank, it is your daughter's right to have it.

I suggest you figure out objectively what is fair, without taking his feelings into the situation. Start with the online calculators, your own budget, and talk to a lawyer. If there are additional circumstances to consider, consider them AFTER you have an idea of your needs and his responsibility.

Don't worry about friendship at the sake of your child. And don't teach him that it is okay to bully you. He is counting on the fact you want to "make nice." It's not your money, it is your daughter's. Don't do her a diservice by letting him walk all over the two of you.

PS - And he SHOULD pay you back-support for the time he hasn't been giving his daughter her money (while you lived with your folks).

PPS - And lawyers can actually keep things nicer and friendlier. You don't discuss the money with him AT ALL. Let the lawyers communicate, And you J. co-parent. Also, consider highering a mediator/arbitrator.

Um bottom line you need to go to the court or at the very least mediation. Why is court not an option???? Clearly, he is being difficult. He helped bring this child into the world and he now has to take responsibility. It is your duty as a mother to be sure that your daughter is provided for. He's being difficult...Get a clue :) Sorry don't mean to be harsh....I J. hate seeing single moms struggling with heavy burdens and the Dad get's off "scott free"

I agree with you but without getting the court involved I doubt you will get it. You are going to have lots of disagreements over the years. People who have committed themselves to one another do but they have the commitment to work it out. Without that commitment I have no idea how people do it. It would take 2 extremely grown up adults to get there.

I am not slamming those that are divorced for the record. I am J. saying I can't imagine how it is done because my husband and I disagree on a lot of things but the fact that we will have to wake up to one another the next morning forces us to work it all out.

you don't have to go to court to solve this. Call your local child support office and let them know your new circumstance and they will go after it. That way its not coming from what you and what you want or what he is willing to pay. They will set the limit, submit it to the courts and be legally bound. They will not go after back support as you weren't requesting it before hand. ( That is what they told M., different states could have different standards) If he wants to get a lawyer to fight it he can, but you wont have to as you will already have the child support office on your side. I hope this helps!

DO NOT SETTLE FOR A LESSER AMOUNT!!! He is going to try to play on your emotions to make you feel sorry for him. If it calculates honestly that he owes $900 then don't "settle" for anything less than $600. He is financially responsible for his child. That is it. Good luck!

Ask him, could he survive on $100 a month? Ask him, how many days would he go without food after $100 ran out? Ask him, how warm is his bed, or how does he enjoy the AC? I mean...let's be real, $100 doesn't even cover medical premiums. If he is acting this way now, it isn't going to get better...only worst. THen, all of a sudden $100 will be too much to pay, and he won't understand why you won't settle for $50...

He has a financial, as well as many other, rights to care and provide for HIS (and your) child!

I don't care what anyone tells you, but you absolutely need to go to court if you want fair child support. That money belongs to your child.

Of course he doesn't want the court involved... he's been comfortable not paying anything per lack of any agreement. If you get a court involved he may even owe back child support that your child is obligated to have. His debt should have no affect on what he owes for child support.

Get a lawyer. If you can't afford a lawyer, get a court appointed mediator. Go through DSS (Department of Social Services) and they can help set you up with a good lawyer willing to work at reduced costs based on your income.

Jen, you gotta get an attorney, girl. No one WANTS it to get ugly, but you BOTH need to understand your rights and responsibilities. The only way to REALLY know how it works is to contact YOUR OWN attorney, not a mediator.

Put the retainer on a joint card or joint account if you still have one, or get a new card, believe M., in the long run, even if you have to pay your own attorney's fees (and it's possible you may not), it'll be VERY VERY worth it. Sigh, sorry.

You don't have to tell him, J. retain an attorney, file for divorce, outline YOUR terms, and wait for his responses.

Be a smart girl.

:)

Sorry - but the ONLY answer is to get a lawyer, especially if he makes that much money. You needed a legal agreement from birth. The child must come first, otherwise you are ignoring your obligations. Maybe look for a pro bono lawyer to get started?

Maybe guys J. suck at math. Don't get M. wrong my ex loves money more than his kids so this may not really apply. He looks at take home instead of gross. So he used to say I was getting half his income when I was really only getting one fourth.

What he needs to look at is your new expenses once you move out. Really 100 would have been fine when you were living with your mom but now your expenses are such that you cannot afford to cover his part of the child's expense.

Have you tried pointing out what the calculator indicates, because that is what the court would give you with or without a lawyer. And point out you want less than half?

You could look up family mediation services that are near you and see an independent third party mediator that specializes in family issues. It is not that expensive and it's much quicker and less acrimonious than court. Good luck!

If he isnt willing to pay you the very minimal amount of 400 then I would tell him that unfortunately you wilI have to take it to the courts and he will really be sorry after that. Its not like you are being unreasonable AT ALL. Maybe you could mention to him what you found when you punched in the figures to the PA Court Calculator and see what he says then and take it from there. If he isnt willing to budge you might J. have to go the legal route
Good Luck

I'm afraid I agree with the majority of the comments also! I don't think this will get any better until you take him to court. He is taking advantage of you. If he had your child full-time I bet he would be asking you for more child support. It is only fair. It's not like he wouldn't have been spending that if you were still together.

I wish you the best of luck! Take care and HOLD STRONG!!!!

I would remind him that the CS calculator for your state says $900 and $400 is a fair deal. If he continues to resist paying for your child ($100 is not much) then consider mediation. You want to be friends and fair, but you both have a legal obligation to support your child. I agree that his child is not a luxury. She is an obligation and a responsibility. You pay for that before you pay for other things and work it out.

I grew up with a father who argued that he $100 he was supposed to pay for TWO children was too much and never paid up and I am also in the situation now that to keep the peace the other parent is not being held to her obligation to pay for her children's needs. Neither situation was/is right. This isn't about YOU and HIM, this is about what is right and fair for your minor daughter. Maybe you don't have cable or eat Ramen or drive an old car, but you make it work. Same as any couple who is still together.

You have debts, too. If he doesn't support his kid (visitation and CS are different things), then you end up taking on more debt. We ended up paying orthodontia to the tune of several thousand dollars after insurance paid their portion. It must be nice to pick and choose what you pay for like the kid is a car or something. Being "too nice" gets you walked on.

There are also other things to consider - like who carries medical coverage, who pays copays, who pays out of pocket fees and how much, who covers daycare and school fees....there's a lot out there you should think about and get hashed out so there isn't any further arguing. My friend gets 50% of the daycare costs paid by her ex because they both need to work. Because his insurance is better, he carries their daughter on his insurance, but they both pay 50% of out of pocket fees and all bills related to their child must be submitted to the other party in 30 days and repaid in 30 days.

Kids are expensive. Plain and simple. If you can't work it out amongst yourselves, you need a 3rd party.

I don't understand, why court isn't an option. It sounds like your so far apart that you won't be able to make an agreement on your own. $200 a month is ridiculous, $200 a week is more like it.

Maybe you could try an abritraitor.

Do you know what your daughter's expenses are monthly/annually? You could simply divide that by 2 so you each pay 1/2.

I understand not wanting it to get ugly, but you won't get anything fair unless you go to court. Men often don't understand what's fair when it comes to child support, and it's unfortunate.

There is a lot of conflicting info here, so I'll chime in with my experience. First you don't say that you were married, so I'll assume you weren't, you simply bought a home together. If you have comfortably dealt with the house issue, as well as any other joint debt, then there really isn't a need for an attorney and court.

Child support is normally done, when custody papers and divorce papers aren't needed, through the child support agency. they create the court order and you may have to appear once or twice, but it really is J. a matter of them collecting the employment information and the cost of child care. They do NOT care about outside debt, unless it is other children, or support orders.

this does mean that a child support order is NOT always fair. I know lots of good dad's who see their kids and pay their support and can't afford to live alone, or own a car ect. because of what they pay in support after their others bills are paid. Child support is factored off an income percentage, a gross income percentage, not spendable income.

It is also completely possible to come to an agreement, get 1 attorney, who will only represent one of you, but can draw up the papers, go before a judge and basically say this is what we want and why and have it work. My ex husband and I did exactly that, and child support was determined at a rate that i was ok with and that was lower than normal because he provides clothing and pays for activities ect. things that i normally would have to pay by normal state laws.

You obviously know what he makes, and know some of his debt, take a good long look at how much of that debt was shared and that he agreed to take over, is he still paying for the house until it sells or are you paying part? go tot he court house and get a copy of a standard visitation order, and see all the things that YOU as a custodial parent are responsible for, such as clothing your child while with dad, and see if he does any of those things and factor in that cost. And don't forget insurance, does he insure her? I used our local calculator and got about 900 as well, but that does not factor in insurance or other support that he may be paying.

But those are J. things to think about to maybe keep the peace. good luck.

This is tough. I was in the same situation - we let the courts handle it first and we were always fighting. I finally made the effort to give him an amount (my child support went from 450 to 200 a month) - J. to keep the peace and so he can be more peaceful around our daughter. In my experience, I have learned that there will be calm times and bad times - but you need to do what is best for the well being of the child. The parent who is NOT living with the child should NEVER have a better life than the child without contributing. That is J. not right. Hope this helps and good luck.

I can't understand why people act this way with child support!! Geez!! I would be up front with him otherwise, find an inexpensive way to take him to court. I'm sure the court will have him pay more than $400. He is manipulating you and you need to be persistent and stand your ground. Who cares if he has more debt than you! That's not your problem. Your problem is making sure YOUR CHILD is taken care of not making sure your EX is taken care of! He's a wimp and needs to take responsibility for his child instead of trying to keep the money for himself. Sorry, I'm sure he's a great dad, it J. makes M. mad when I hear this happening! Good luck!!

I would spell everything out for him. Print up a sheet that shows how much you spend in a month to take care of your daughter.

Such as...

Daycare $310
Rent $600
Food/diapers/clothes/etc $100
Total: $1010

Half that would be $505 - so that's how much I'd want from him!

J. list & add up all the costs for taking care of her and split it. If he sees it listed out like that, it will hopefully make him realize that a kid is NOT cheap!

Good luck, I hope you can talk some sense into him!

Seriously...this will never work. You need to go to court and let them decide on it because both of you will always have your own reasonings why you need more money, he can't pay it, etc. etc.

You need to think about the child here because this is only going to lead into major fighting and that's not what your child needs to hear or be a part of. Let the courts figure this out.

I agree with Mrs. Robinson. Your only option is court. Go to the district attorney and get them to get the child support. It's free and you will get child support. He may not be happy but your daughter is his responsibility also!
Don't be nice about this....financially this will hurt you if you do not.
Take it from M. I have been there well actually I am still here.
Good Luck Jen!