Older Kids Refuse to Help Out

Keep taking away the friends and the tv and also take the doors off of their rooms. Take everything out of their rooms except their beds and clothing. IF they want their stuff back and ultimately the doors on their rooms -they can earn them back by doing their chores. If they don't do the chores, they get the doors taken off again. Kids HATE losing their privacy! That usually works in almost every case. All you can say in regards to their bio dad's house is that they aren't living there when they're with you, and you actually want them to learn to care for themselves, which they'll ultimately appreciate. You're not asking them to drop out of school and do hard labor -you're simply talking about chores, and far too few children seem to have them these days.

My kids would get MORE until they realized that a family unit requires everyone to help, some more than others at times, to make a family run smoothly. And I agree with the one mom who said she would be all over them like white on rice. They can DEFINITELY be kids and help with the house. I can not stand when people do not make their kids help, it only makes them useless as they grow older. All of my kids do chores and if they dont, they lose things. My 7 year olds room was a mess for a month. I was getting ready to make a donation trip for clothes, and she was told if her room was still a mess, I was putting EVERYTHING in a bag and taking it to donate. Best belive I would have done it had she not taken it seriously. Follow through on any punishment you hand out and be consistant.

honey as soon as i had that baby and was feeling just a smigden good i would be all over those kids like white on rice!!!!!!!!i would take those TV's out of the house, put a lock on my refrigarator(bread and water only), give them one outfit A WEEK TO WEAR, and they are not to old for a good old fashion whooping! i swear i wish i was not on mamapedia so i could really say what i want to say. who do they think they are???? I wish my kids would try that mess with me it take a week befire they could go out in public cause i would tear they behinds up! don't keep doing their work for them and don't give them anything extra!!! no snacks no good dinner,lunch, or breakfast! i wish i lived where you were because i would be over there right NOW! i hate to hear people say their children treat them like this. and i wouldn't care if freddy kruger was their stepfather they would get themselves in line! i can't even think straight while i am typing this because i want to come there and help you soooooo bad!!!!!!! all i can is i am soooo praying for you.

J.,

I do agree with Denise your expectations may be a little high. They are still pretty young. I didn't learn how to do laundry until I went away to college. LOL! I taught my oldest child how to do laundry his freshman year in high school when he refused to get his laundry in the laundry room for me. Doing his own laundry was a consequence of not doing that little chore. But I understand every family has their own way of doing things, and , I also agree that some chores to help you are reasonable, especially in your current situation. Just keep in mind they are kids.

This is what I would suggest. Ask them to do the laundry, dry it, then bring it upstairs for you to fold. Proclaim laundry night and tell them the night before that is what will be happening the next night. I imagine they just need a little reminder. If that is not the case and they don't help.......you and your husband do it together. Then the next time the kids want to go somewhere or want you to do something for them tell them, "Oh, I'd like to honey, but I am still tired from doing your chores so I just don't think I want to today." It may take a couple of times, but they will get it.

My oldest is 7 and he and his4 year old brother work together and clean all of the mirrors in the house, vacuum the house, empty the dishwasher. My 4 year old LOVEs to do dishes. My 2 year old empties the trash from the bathrooms into the kitchen and my 7 year old takes all of the trash and recycle bins out to the outside cans...and on trash day takes them to the street.

You just need to mean business. If they leave anything out, throw it in a trash bag and literally throw it out. One or two times of this and it won't happen again. Even if it's a $70 pair of jeans, or whatever. My kids kept leaving toys and things on the kitchen table, so while they were eating, I didn't say a thing and I took everything and threw it in the trash. They cried, because they "didn't think you would do it!" Never have they left anything on the table again. Sometimes silence is louder than yelling/nagging.

Run your house like you want to. At least your kids will have respect for you. Forget what your ex does. Have the cable removed and move the TV outside into the garage.

My friend's kids were behaing the same way, so I told her to have them earn everything back. She was scared, but she did it. They came upstairs and their rooms were being emptied, bed and all, into the garage. You should have seen the shock on their faces, she said. That night, she told them to go to bed and they said they couldn't because there were no beds. She replied, "There are plenty of people, including children that doen't even own beds and they sleep on the floor or on the ground every night." That night, she gave them a blanket, for behaving, answering and helping all day. The next day they were perfect and respectful, they each earned their pillows back....still on the floor. Even take their cell phones away, even they own one AND don't return it when they go to their dad's unless they have earned them back.

It's easier to get their respect than it is to have them disobey you and have to indentify a body in the morgue. The kids who love their parents later, are the ones who loved them enough to set tough, but fair rules. If they end up living at their dad's full time because of this, then so be it. Don't let them disrespect you....trust me, you will be the one liked in the end and it's not even about that. It's about YOU loving THEM more, because you set boundaries and keep those lines clear. Step over them and they get consequences.

So maybe the solution here is to do the work yourself, FOR ONLY YOURSELF, YOUR HUSBAND AND YOUR YOUNGER CHILD/CHILDREN. Do NOT do your older children's laundry, do NOT cook for them, do NOT pick up after them (or if their stuff is in your way put it in a garbage bag and store it in the garage or attic where they can't find it; tell them you threw it away), do NOT fix their lunches, do NOT help with their homework etc...... It sounds like it's time to let them FAIL! Only, make sure you talk to the school before hand and let them know what you're planning to do. If you can get them on board then it would really help so that your kids are allowed to truly fail, meaning SUMMER SCHOOL!

Sometimes the harsh realities of life are the best teachers. When your kids are made fun of for wearing dirty and wrinkly clothes to school, they'll learn something, when they're in summer school because they goofed off in school all year and therefore don't get the summer to spend with their friends, they'll learn something etc....

Good luck to you.

J.,

I have been there, not quite to this extreme, but it is very simple to handle...just be strong! My kids would not bring their dirty clothes down to be washed, so I did laundry and I hear Mom, this isn't clean...you know I do laundry on my day off, so you know it should have been there. Oh but they needed it so bad, I told them well make sure it's in there next week! So they decided they would just wash what they needed ~ NOPE it's not happening is what I told them, we are not doing extra loads because you won't do things that need done. I was told that was unfair, my reply was no...unfair is expecting me to do extra work because you won't help. The first week they still had some clothes but by then they were begging me to do laundry and their laundry was down and sorted when laundry day came around.

They did the same thing with the kitchen, it's amazing what kids will do when they can have bologna sandwiches, or peanut butter and jelly instead of dinner! The dishes were not done, so I didn't cook dinner...we're hungry, when the kitchen is clean I will cook dinner...just a few days and they decided that they would do their kitchen chores and keep them done, I guess sandwiches got old really fast!

Someone suggested paper plates and plastic silverware, but that isn't really going to help in my opinion, it makes it easy to not clean the kitchen cause we can just throw this away...what about the pots and pans!

And yes, if they leave their stuff scattered, bag it up...can't throw it out?? Lock it up and don't give in when they beg for it, they don't need to know you didn't give it away!! Just take your stand and don't give in! That will be hard for you with a new baby due any day! The best of luck to you, you can do it!

I'm clearly in the minority, but it seems to me like you're expecting a lot from these kids. You went to do laundry because 2 of you had NOTHING clean to wear? I can bet your house has a boatload of laundry per week (mine does and there are only 3 of us!) and I wouldn't dream of it getting that overwhelming--keeping up is best.
I know you're almost at your due date and are having mobility issues but perhaps you could go downstairs with them and supervise the laundry? Or throw a load in at night and ask O. to put in the dryer the next morning, then fold?
They might be overwhelmed with the tasks. Break it down into smaller chunks.
I'm sure the lack of responsibility (and possible chaos--considering past posts about dad) doesn't help but if your rules and requests are clear, simple, short and concise --they should understand the rules in YOUR house! Good luck!

consistancy, consistany, if you tell the kids they are going to do this or that for a punishment then give into them and not follow through becaue they throw a fit....guess what, they know they can throw a hard enough fit and get their way. I have a friend that had similar problems with about the same age group of kids....i cannot stress enough that if you are going to enforce a punishment, it needs to be fully enforced. something you can keep tryin is if they keep refusing to do the laundry, you leave their clothes dirty, and when they have nothing to wear.....they can do the laundry etc.

but if you're gong to tell them they are being punished, no tv or what ever, you HAVE to follow through with it or they will be calling your bluff every time. i have to warn you, it'll be hard as hell at first because they are used to throwing the fit then getting what they want, so they will rebel, because they are used to being able to.

they may have two seperate houses (mom's and dad's) but i know a lot kdis that do, and it all depends on how YOU enforce YOUR rules at YOUR home, eventually, they will learn daddy's and mommy's rules, and will be able to destinguish the difference

feel free to e-mail me for suggestions if you want

Honey you are not alone but regardless if you are on the same page as your ex-husband you have the power to change this situation
Stop doing their clothes-seriously! Separate their clothes from your other children’s and leave them downstairs. Pack away all but 7 outfits to include underwear and socks and donate them ()or take them somewhere else for storage) if you’ve bought new school clothes take them back (if you can)
As far as privileges are concerned you are right to take away things for noncompliance. (if you have cable you can put a lock on ALL channels so that can’t access the TV) Rewards and consequences go hand and hand. I’ve gone as far as stripping my daughter’s room of all her toys (leaving her with her bed and dresser) at that age and giving her NOTHING to do. We did NO activities for a week before she caught the hint. The problem with this generation is that the kids feel entitled. I am not sure what your custody agreement is but I would try to sit down with a neutral 3rd party and come to some sort of resolution to his inability to come onboard with the discipline you and your husband are trying to instill.
Thankfully my ex has not been an active part of my daughter’s life in over 10 years so I set the rules. If it helps you any my daughter is now 17 and can look back at this time and laugh

I'm not sure whether or not that many household chores are appropriate for that age, so I won't comment on that; but you think these chores are appropriate and you obviously know your kids better than I do. So, here's my suggestion...

Try natural consequences. For example, give them one cup, one plate, and one fork, etc. (Maybe even buy a cheap plastic colored set so there is no doubt whose is whose - like red for one kid and blue for the other). They can't eat unless they are clean. Pick the one set of clothes they hate the most and say you will wash that outfit. If the other clothes are not clean (and really clean, not just thrown in the dryer) then they have to wear that one ugly set of clothes every day. Any toys left on the floor after clean up time (set a timer) get put in a box in the garage for a week, and so on. Don't nag, just enforce the consequences (after clearing explaining them first, of course).

I hope that helps.

Not sure how I'd handle some of the chores, but since you mentioned laundry as being a big issue, here's what I'd do. I'd do only the laundry for myself, hubby, and the little ones (and in your advanced state, I'd have hubby help with all that!). You've taught them how to do it, they know it's their responsibility. Don't think I'd even give them any warning. Just stop doing their clothes and they'll either get tired of smelling bad or not. Either way, don't worry about it anymore. Just look at it as something you don't do anymore. Good luck!

Lots of great responses. Consistency is key. You might also let them know that they do have a choice of whether or not they do the chores keeping in mind that their choices have outcomes. It's calling their bluff in a way. Don't do chores and do them well as part of the family, then the outcome is no tv.....This may help to put it back on them and not on you and hubby while teaching them a valuable life lesson. - If you do give them a choice followed by an outcome, be SURE to follow through. You might also have something planned, and not every time, to reward them for having done chores well. Positive reinforcement. A special dessert, dinner out - something that means something to them that they will really like. - Good luck with the new one! -- Another thought.. you might also let them know that you, too, have choice - choice to whether or not you are going to buy those neat shoes or outfit they want or a video game they've been wanting.

Two suggestions: read "Love & Logic", and watch an episode of "Modern Family." Love & Logic basically says to sit down and explain to them that everyone in the family is important and their help is needed to run the house. You can list of some examples of who takes care of what to illustrate the point. Then let them know you expect them to carry their load, and if they doesn't, and you have to do their work, you might not be able to do the extras for them like drive them to a friend's house, etc.

For example with the laundry, if they didn't do it, then you ask them to and they say no, the next time they need something like a ride to a friend's house, supplies for a project at school, help with something, you tell them, with sincerity, "Oh, honey, I'm so sorry. I would really like to help you with that/take you there/pick that up for you at the store, but I'm just wiped out from all the extra chores I had to do like the laundry. I'm going to lie down for a few minutes and rest." They will learn that they are able to make their own decisions and that those decisions have consequences. It might take some patience on your part, but the opportunity will present itself. The book does a MUCH better job of explaining, but that's the general idea.

Then watch the "Starry Night" episode of "Modern Family" to deal with teaching the kids how to do things right. The teenage daughter tells her mom the day before she needs 3 dozen cupcakes. The mom tells her she needs to make them herself. The daughter knows her mom is a perfectionist and decides to work the situation by "accidentally" cracking eggs and getting shell in the batter, ie doing a poor job on purpose. Her mom takes over and makes them, just like the daughter knows she will. The daughter thinks she wins. But at the end, they each have a cupcake and talk about how good they are, and then the mom throws them all away, and tells her daughter, now you know how to make the right. Do it yourself.

I'M AMAZED AT THE ANSWERS you got from J. P., Somer G., CaresseT., Diane D. and Julie B. THEIR ANSWERS ARE FANTASTIC. I could copy and post their answers but you can scroll down and read them.

The more you do for your lazy children the more they will expect you to do for them. If you keep it up you will be a slave in your own home. AND you will raise worthless adults. They won't love you for it and you will be dispised by your own children.

Teach your kids. Teach them to be responsible adults. Teach them the skills they will need to be responsible adults. I've seen the homes of adults that weren't taught to clean and care for themselves. One lady had to come and ask for help from our church womens' organization (The Relief Society) because she was never taught and REQUIRED by her family to do those things. (Child Welfare inspected her home and threatened to take away her children if she didn't provide a "safe, clean" place for her kids.)

I learned to wash my clothes when I moved away to college. My kids learned to wash their clothes when they were 9 to 12 years old. They washed their clothes from then on. If they didn't have clean clothes we made them wash them. If they needed to wash their sheets, then we made them wash them. We took away privledges and if they didn't learn that way then I would swat. I gave them a choice. Do the work before or after the punishment. Occasionaly, they chose the punishment first. I hated that, but some people have to learn the hard way.

I insisted my kids do their homework. I told them it was just practice school. I insisted they wash their dishes. If some one got a dirty plate or fork or etc. the one that washed the dishes had to eat using the dirty utensil. If there were two dirty utensils, the one that dried the dishes and put them away had to eat using the dirty utensil. For your kids that refuse to wash the dishes, I'd give the one that was supposed to wash the dishes the dirtiest looking plate, cup and silverware I could find. I'd let the one that is supposed to dry and put them the second dirtiest stuff. I'd give everyone else clean stuff. If the napkins weren't thrown away, I'd give the washer and dryer dirty napkins to use. If they tried to wash them before using them, tell them they could wash them after dinner. If they refused to eat off them, no dinner or drinks until the next morning. I'd guard the frig and pantry to ensure they wouldn't sneak anything to eat.

In our house, one person washed and another dryed and put away. The one that dryed was the quality control check on the washer. If the dryer found something dirty it was their responsibility to make sure it got put back in the dirty dishes to be washed. That process solved our dirty dishes problem. My kids knew I was serious and we only had one or two times in all the time we had kids that the washer and dryer both had to eat off dirty dishes.

Suggestion . . . Have a family meeting. Make a list of all the jobs/chores that have to be done. If you have 6 people over 6 in your home then you should make a list of 5 sets of jobs. We started with the easiest jobs and ended up with the hardest jobs. Each child and adult had one week on the job list. When Sunday rolled around we switched jobs. If someone hadn't completed their job, then they began the next set of jobs and continued doing the old job until they finished it. One week was for "vacation" and no jobs. It was saved for right after the week with the toughest job. Everyone was expected to do their personal jobs, like washing their own clothes, cleaning their own room, weeding their own garden. Weeding the family garden, and that kind of thing was a week long job.

I fought the battle and won. You can see my profile. My son that refused to do home work until I insisted, ended up with a full ride 4 year scholarship because he made salutatorian (#2 graduate in high school). He will graduate from USC Med School in May 2011. YES!!!! it was worth all the tears and anger and fighting.

You have plenty of suggestions. If you need help or ideas from me, e-mail me. "A mind and life is a terrible thing to waste."

Good luck to you and yours.

As for laundry, they are both old enough to do their own laundry. My two have done thiers since they were 10. If they don't have clean clothes then they wear dirty ones. Trust me when they have to wear the same dirty clothes a couple of time, they'll wash their clothes.

Now I'm one of those mom's that spanks her kids. My daughters know if they don't do something by the second time I've told them they will get three wacks with the yard stick, over thier undies. I've only had to do it once. Now I can threaten and they jump to do what they were told to do. My kids have responsiblities and they don't get any allowance for them. They clean their own bathroom and can only stop when I've approved the clean. They vacuum and dust. And they have to clean their own rooms and their area in the basement, which is their play/tv area. If is not done correctly then they will redo it until it is. That means missing play time with friends or a tv show, oh well. Not my problem. They've even missed a party because their rooms weren't done correctly. I don't know if this will help you, but I hope you can get something from it. Good luck and God Bless.
Oh, and talk with your husband and tell him he needs to help with this issue also...mine will do laundry if he knows I cannot. Just sayin'.

I'm sorry you're in this difficult situation.

I read an interesting suggestion on another site on how to control the dirty dishes that are stacked up, and maybe it would work for you:

Every person in the house is given 1 cup, 1 knife, 1 fork, 1 spoon, 1 plate, 1 bowl - all labeled so there is no confusion as to whose is whose (maybe color code them in addition to labeling; you can buy plastic, reusable plates/cups,etc to help with it). That's it. All other dishes (except for cooking pots/pans) are removed (however that needs to be done so no one "cheats"). Each person is responsible for cleaning his/her own dishes. You would probably have to help or do the younger ones, but if the older ones can't be bothered to wash their own dishes, well, then it is their problem and they can eat off dirty plates.

You could probably do the same for their laundry--they are in charge of their own clothes. They don't have to do anyone else's, just their own (maybe even pare down the clothes so that they have fewer to wash/worry about?). But if they don't, well, then they can face the ridicule of going to school in dirty, smelly clothes.

Maybe sit down as a family and have a conference on this issue before instituting the new rules. Do it when there are no high tensions going on if at all possible. Outline everyone contributes to the household mess, and everyone is expected to help take care of it, though the "tough stuff" can go to Mom & Dad. But that you expect everyone to help out. Explain the new system (their own dishes, their own clothes) (you can even spin it like "We're reducing your chores" :). I would also suggest, even for the littler ones, though, that you institute some very simple chores with them, otherwise the older ones will feel it unfair. Start off with all privileges reinstated (start over from scratch, so everyone is in a good mood). Then if they fail, take privileges away as needed.

I think you should do just what a lot of others said. STOP DOING STUFF FOR THEM. Just do thing for your little ones. Tell them when you start to see they are doing things right you will HELP them but when they start to do it again you will make them do it all. I had to do this and it was very hard for me cause I care a lot about what I look like and my kids as well. It will take some time but they will learn they dont like to be dirty.
Good luck

Have a chat with your hubby and list everything that needs to be done to run your household. Everything from feeding the cat to changing the sheets to doing yard work should be on your list.

Now sit your little lovies down for a little chat. Don't be upset or overly emotional about things. Explain calmly that things haven't been running well lately. That there is been a lot of deception when chores are not being done. Explain that as children get older they want more rights however with rights come responsibilities.

Go through your list and have everyone pick out one chore. Everyone can help; every little 2 yr olds can pick up toys. Have everyone pick out 2 or 3 chores.

Next discuss the time frame these chores need for completion. Let the children have input on this. You may want the dishwasher loaded at 6pm but 6:30 might be their decision. All this should be written down so there is no 'that's not what we decided' arguments later.

Lastly have the children what will happen if the rules aren't followed. Discuss what they think is a correct punishment and when a decision is made write that down too.

After all that when a chore isn't done just take the child to the list and say 'ok let's see what we decided' and follow through on everything. Make sure your hubby sees that it isn't about getting your kids to like you. Your job as a parent is to raise little human being to be responsible adults who will go out and do good things in the world.

Yes, to the Love and Logic! Get the books or the CD's (you probably don't have time to read!) or something!!! But you can listen to the CD's in the car (without the older 2 around...surprise them. LOL)

We have NO electronic privileges here if grades are not the best they could be and if behavior is poor. No ipods, no tv, none of that....when grades go back up, things slowly start coming back.

In our house, we all work together to make our house liveable. If you are not getting your kids attention with the consequences then either the consequences are not severe enough or not held for long enough.

Jim Fay has a great story in one of the CD's about how Mom was exhausted, the house was a mess and kids weren't doing anything to clean it or pick up their stuff. Mom started saying, "I will cook dinner when the house is cleaned up." And after 2 evenings of those kids eating late dinner and being very hungry, that Mom didn't have to say anything anymore!

.

I asked almost this same question yesterday about my 12 yo. Got a lot of good advice and a lot of people telling me to basically give in and do it myself, which I don't agree with at all.

I have 5 kids and a husband who is gone 10 days at a time & a in-home daycare so you can imagine the chaos the ensues. Well yesterday I had had enough! I was done. So I started researching and found this book, which also happens to be on CD and went to the library and got it. It is excellent! It is called Parenting With Love & Logic, by Jim Fay. They have a website too it is www.loveandlogic.com ....

He is a funny guy so it is easy to listen to and actually easy to apply the stuff and then it takes the stress off of you and puts the ball in their court, it also aleviates the yelling and grounding and punishing. I actually tried a couple of suggestions and what do you know it worked, my daughter actually got her chores done in a reasonable timeframe and did them right, which was few and far between in the past, I'm not saying it will change overnight but I am confident it will start to change.

I haven't scrolled down yet but boy oh boy you need help! You must be so tired. This is what I would do. I would only wash my clothes, hubby and smaller children s.
Your older two who do not want to help. They would have one outfit each and I would lock all clothes up until they did what they were supposed to do. They would eat off paper plates and plastic forks. I would also take everything out of there rooms. Only a bed would be visible until they learn they have to help, I have been known in the past to take down bedroom doors so no privacy for them. NO phones, NO tv......take the cords, No laptop or computer....take the key board. If they need homework done on the computer. Thats what the library is for. My kids usually did a quick turn around once we went to the library. I love it there so no biggie for me. I know your under stress because your due soon. I would make a chart because they are acting like they are 5. A reward system, if nothing gets done. Then work your magic on the ideas above and below here. Good luck momma!

It sounds like they may be angry and this is how they express it . . . perhaps rightfully so, perhaps not. They should not be allowed to fib or lie - that is destructive for them ultimately. But you should not underestimate the turmoil that has swirled in their early lives and how that has affected them.

Some family counseling may help all of you learn how to relate in a more productive and helpful way.

I also think your expectations may be a bit high for their age levels.

Good luck to all of you.